small comms

[[e-mail]]

I'm interested in what the minimum computer
requirements are to dial a BBS and read/write
messages in a forum (like this one).

The VIC 20 only came with 5 KiB of RAM standard
as far as I can tell.

Assume the computer being dialed has enough
computing power to do whatever you want. It
may even be an MVS mainframe with special
equipment to support modem access.

But if you only have 5 KiB of RAM, you can't
expect to download an entire message and
edit it locally. You will need to just read
characters from the COM port (which are
hopefully in a format suitable for a VIC 20)
and directly display them on the screen.
There may be scroll-up/down commands
sent from the BBS as well.

I'm interested to know at what date I could
have started using BBSes if I had cooperative
parents and a cooperative mainframe owner.
BBSes are a life-changing experience,
allowing you to talk to the world.

I'm also interested in implementing a small
comms program on a suitable emulated
machine. Perhaps starting with a 8086 with
16 KiB of memory, so I can presumably use Bochs.

Thanks. Paul.

[[e-mail]]

Post by ***@gmail.com
Assume the computer being dialed has enough
computing power to do whatever you want. It
may even be an MVS mainframe with special
equipment to support modem access.

Actually I can envisage 3 levels here. There may
be a PC with enough memory to store an entire
message, and this PC drives the VIC-20. But the
PC is not powerful enough to do mailprocessing,
so that job is passed on to the mainframe, ie only
the PC communicates with the mainframe.

And I can have emulators for all 3 levels running.

BFN. Paul.

[s***@yahoo.com]

Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm interested in what the minimum computer
requirements are to dial a BBS and read/write
messages in a forum (like this one).
The VIC 20 only came with 5 KiB of RAM standard
as far as I can tell.
Assume the computer being dialed has enough
computing power to do whatever you want. It
may even be an MVS mainframe with special
equipment to support modem access.

Could've been a mainframe or an S100 buss business or hobbiest system.
At 1200 or 2400 baud transfer rates.

Post by ***@gmail.com
But if you only have 5 KiB of RAM, you can't
expect to download an entire message and
edit it locally. You will need to just read
characters from the COM port (which are
hopefully in a format suitable for a VIC 20)
and directly display them on the screen.
There may be scroll-up/down commands
sent from the BBS as well.

You generally would not hold long threads all in memory, they would be in a file and an editor would display a page at a time.

Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm interested to know at what date I could
have started using BBSes if I had cooperative
parents and a cooperative mainframe owner.
BBSes are a life-changing experience,
allowing you to talk to the world.

Oh say 1983

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.cpm/c/qpHZIgxZBG0

I used an Amstrad PCW like this in the late 1990's:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?noapp=1&v=oE1C3wFdiZU

-no gui of course, just text. The modem was controlled thru the ATA commands to it, and the connection software managed the file upload/downloads.

Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm also interested in implementing a small
comms program on a suitable emulated
machine. Perhaps starting with a 8086 with
16 KiB of memory, so I can presumably use Bochs.
Thanks. Paul.

Steve

[Rod Pemberton]

On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 02:25:33 -0800 (PST)

Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm interested in what the minimum computer
requirements are to dial a BBS and read/write
messages in a forum (like this one).
The VIC 20 only came with 5 KiB of RAM standard
as far as I can tell.
Assume the computer being dialed has enough
computing power to do whatever you want. It
may even be an MVS mainframe with special
equipment to support modem access.
But if you only have 5 KiB of RAM, you can't
expect to download an entire message and
edit it locally. You will need to just read
characters from the COM port (which are
hopefully in a format suitable for a VIC 20)
and directly display them on the screen.
There may be scroll-up/down commands
sent from the BBS as well.
I'm interested to know at what date I could
have started using BBSes if I had cooperative
parents and a cooperative mainframe owner.
BBSes are a life-changing experience,
allowing you to talk to the world.
I'm also interested in implementing a small
comms program on a suitable emulated
machine. Perhaps starting with a 8086 with
16 KiB of memory, so I can presumably use Bochs.
Thanks. Paul.

I don't recall what was needed for the VIC-20.
However, the C64 had dial-up software. I never
had an external modem though. I did implement
a null-modem cable with logic conversion (more
on this below) to connect a C64 to an IBM PC.

I'd say probably 300 baud modem minimum, if you
can still find a dial-up phone line to connect
you to a BBS ... or even the internet.

There were a couple of dial-up companies still
around in the U.S. a few years ago, which doesn't
help you. Mostly, this was for business users
to get email in locations that didn't have
internet access yet, e.g., rural hotels. Dial-up
is also still used for the upload portion of
bi-directional internet protocols/circuit for
satellite internet. Download is via satellite.
There is no satellite upload, i.e., dial-up phone
line is for upload.

One of the problems you'll have with the C64,
and likely VIC-20 too, was that the C64 used
inverted TTL level logic. I.e., it didn't have
RS-232C positive/negative signal levels. This
meant you either needed an extra circuit to allow
it to connect to an external modem, e.g., Hayes,
or you needed a modem manufactured for the C64.


Rod Pemberton

--

[Grant Taylor]

Dial-up is also still used for the upload portion of bi-directional
internet protocols/circuit for satellite internet. Download is via
satellite. There is no satellite upload, i.e., dial-up phone line
is for upload.

Bi-Directional satellite (for home users) has been a thing for more than
10 years.

I've not heard of satellite down and modem up being used (for home
users) in about 20 years.

[Rod Pemberton]

On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 02:25:33 -0800 (PST)

Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm interested to know at what date I could
have started using BBSes

At least by the mid 1980's .. That was when
some other people I knew managed to connect to
BBSes using C64's for the first time.

Post by ***@gmail.com
if I had cooperative parents

That probably wasn't the issue.

In the U.S., connecting to a BBS meant a long
distance phone call. Unfortunately, the phone
calls were charged by the minute. So, people
who called BBSes usually used a dial-in/dial-out
long-haul phone service call Telenet. This
turned long-distance phone calls into local
calls which were usually free or part of the
basic phone service charges. Kids during the
8-bit computing era couldn't afford to pay for
this, so some of them stole access or stole
credit cards to pay for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telenet

Wikipedia's article says,

"Free public dialup access to Telenet, for
those who wished to access these systems,
was provided in hundreds of cities throughout
the United States."

I have no idea where or when that was ...
Phracks (phone hackers) were still hacking
phone service and Telenet, mainly for
long-distance well into the late 1990s.


Rod Pemberton

--